Andrew Lindsay
Andrew Lindsay married Elizabeth Forbes in 1783 in Kettle, Fife. Elizabeth was the daughter of James Forbes and Helen Wishart. Elizabeth was born in 1761 and died in 1817.
They had 7 children all born in Kettle.
David born 1784, died 1797 of consumption
Helen born 1786. She married David Rollo in 1808.
Elizabeth born 1789
Alexander born 1791, died 1872. He married Janet Edmonston 1811 in Kettle. She was born 1793 in Kettle and died 1872. They had 4 children (see below),
John born 1793
Elizabeth born 1796
Mary born 1799.
The children of Alexander Lindsay and Janet Edmondson
Andrew was born about 1814 in Kettle and died in 1868. He married Elizabeth Wishart in
1838. They had 3 children Isabella born 1838, Alexander born 1840 and Janet born 1847.
Elizabeth was born about 1818 in Kettle and married Matthew Taylor in 1841. Matthew was
born in 1815 and died in 1903. They had 4 children Janet born 1841, Elizabeth born 1844,
Andrew born 1846 and Margaret born 1848.
Robert was born about 1820.
David was born in 1829 in Kettle (see below).
David Lindsay
David married Barbara Hay in 1854. Barbara was born about 1835 in Scotlandwells, Kinrosshire and was the daughter of John Hay and Mary Jackson. John Hay was born in 1796 in Portmoak, Scotlandwells, Kinrosshire and died 1883.
He married Mary Jackson in 1823 in Portmoak. She was born about 1801 in Portmoak. They had 6 children: John born 1824, Ebenezer born 1826, Isabella born 1828, James born 1832, Barbara born 1835 and Mary born 1840.
I have found several newspaper reports about Barbara who appeared to have a drink problem which led to her being in court for a variety of offences, including theft and assault of her husband and daughter. Barbara died in 1910 in Lochee.
The children of David Lindsay and Barbara Hay
Alexander born 1855 Kettle
Mary born 1857 Kettle
Janet born 1860 Kettle
Elizabeth born 1861 Kettle and died 1862 at Ramornie Mill
John born 1863 Kettle, married to Catherine Hutchison in 1887, daughter of Charles Hutchison and
Margaret Campsie. One child Charlotte born 1901 who married William flight McLaren in
1926, Scone Perth.
Margaret (Maggie) born 1865 Kettle (see below)
David born 1868 Kettle
Janet born 1871 in Perth
Elizabeth born 1873 Kettle.
In 1851 David is aged 21 living at Glenearn Bothy, Dron, Perthshire. He is a farm labourer. Others in the household are Andrew Car, a servant aged 18 born in Largo, Fife, George Johnston aged 56 a farm labourer born in Orwell, Kinross, Johnston’s wife Christian aged 50 born in Arngask, Perth and Thomas Johnston also a farm labourer aged 21 born in Kettle.
In 1861 David and Barbara are living at Ramornie Mill, Kettle. David is a ploughman. Alexander aged 5 is also there, Mary aged 3 and Janet 9 months.
In the1871 census, the family is living at 216 South Street, Perthshire. David’s occupation is fireman in gas works. Alexander is a cabinet maker and Mary is a winder.
In the1881 census they are living at 224 High Street, Perth. David’s occupation is gas stoker. Barbara is a housekeeper, John is a dyer and Margaret is a message girl.
In the 1891 census David and Barbara are living at 8 Dens Road, Dundee and their grand-daughter Barbara Hay Lindsay aged 8 is there with them. David and Barbara are both mill workers.
I found several newspaper articles about Barbara Hay (Lindsay) who made several court appearances for drunken behaviour and an attempted suicide attempt.
Dundee Courier Angus, Scotland
7 Sep 1885
PERTH Alleged Theft of Clothing.—Barbara Hay or Lindsay was charged before Bailie Chalmers the Police Court Friday with having between Saturday, 22d, and Sunday, 30th August last, stolen a woollen plaid, two black cloth skirts, a black cloth dress and jacket, and a woman’s cotton chemise, from the house in Cutlog Vennel occupied by Mary Barrie or McFarlane, widow. She pled not guilty, and, after hearing the evidence, the Bailie dismissed her, finding the charge not proven.
Evening Telegraph
03 December 1885
Theft of Potatoes from a Pit
Barbara Hay or Lindsay, residing in South Street, Perth, pleaded guilty before Sheriff Grahame at Perth today to having on the 25th November stolen a quantity of potatoes from a pit at the farm steading of Lair Well, parish of Kinnoull, occupied by Archibald Powrie, farmer. She was sent to prison for twenty days.
Dundee Courier Angus, Scotland
25 Dec 1885
PERTH Theft of Chain. —At the Police Court yesterday—Bailie Cowan on the bench —-Barbara Hay or Lindsay was sent to prison for thirty days for having, betwixt the I8th and 20th October, stolen a silver chain and locket attached from the house at 58 Pomarium St. occupied by Alex. Elder storekeeper.
Evening Telegraph Angus, Scotland
2 Feb 1887
PERTH ASSAULT A HUSBAND.—Barbara Hay or Lindsay pleaded guilty before Bailie Duncan at the Police Court this forenoon to having assaulted David Lindsay, her husband, by striking him with iron key, in their dwelling-house at High Street yesterday. She was sentenced to suffer twenty days imprisonment.
Evening Telegraph Angus, Scotland
17 Jan 1887
PERTH. ASSAULT. —Barbara Hay or Lindsay pleaded guilty before Bailie Frazer at the Police Court this forenoon to having assaulted her daughter, Margaret Lindsay, in their dwelling-house at 224 High Street Saturday striking her the face and seizing hold of her by the throat. She was sentenced to pay a fine of 10s or suffer seven days imprisonment.
Dundee Courier Angus, Scotland
25 Jan 1887
PERTH Attempted Suicide.—About six o’clock on Monday night Barbara Hay or Lindsay, residing High Street, who had just undergone ten days’ imprisonment for assaulting her daughter, attempted to commit suicide by swallowing a dose of laudanum while under the influence of liquor. She was seen taking the laudanum at the sink and as she at once became unwell the police were sent for. Pending the arrival of Dr.Kennedy the police made use of their ambulance instruction and applied the necessary remedies. Dr.Kennedy on his arrival ordered the woman to be removed to the infirmary. Owing to the prompt attention of the police the woman is believed to have been placed beyond danger.
Margaret Lindsay
Maggie had 3 children. Barbara Hay born 1883 (see below) and Davina born 1887 (see below) were both born in Perth, no fathers’ names on either of the birth certificates. She then had a son George in 1889 after her marriage to George Rushforth in 1888.
Her husband was the son of George Rushforth and Christina Wood. George senior was born in 1860 in Ponsby, Renfrewshire and died in 1941 in Perth. On their marriage certificate Maggie was a factory worker resident at 224 High Street, Perth. George was a boilermaker, resident at 19 St.Leonards Street, Perth. Their son George married Elizabeth Ann Strathearn in 1921 and I have found 3 children for them: Christina b.1921, Elsie b.1924 and George Ramsay b.1826.
In the 1891 census Maggie is living at 5 Cotton Road, Dundee with her daughter Davina. Her occupation is jute weaver. George is at his parents’ house Caledonian Buildings, Perth, he is aged 30 and is a riveter. George’s father is aged 54 a clerk. Others in the household are Ramsay aged 28 a tenter, Christina aged 17 a house assistant, Samuel aged 15 a messenger, Chornoby aged 13 a newsboy. George and Maggie’s son is also there aged 2.
In the 1901 census Maggie is visiting16 Nelson Street, Dundee occupation weaver. Others in the household are Julia Hay born 1856 in Carnoustie, Forfarshire. She is a mill worker preparer. Andreina McArthur is a grandchild born 1892 in Dundee.
George is still at his parents’ house in 1901 living at South Burghmuir Road, Broomhill Cottages, with his mother Christina and brothers Ramsay and Samuel. His son George aged 12 is also there.
In the 1911 census Maggie is visiting Trynlaw Lodge, Cupar. She is aged 41 (?) said to be of private means. In 1911 George is at his mother’s house with his brother William aged 45. George is a riveter at a railway company and William is a striker also at the railway company.
In the 3 census returns, Maggie and George are never together so the marriage obviously hadn’t worked out. I found a newspaper report of 1913 about Maggie being assaulted by a man she had been living with for four years. This fits in with something my cousin Sam had told me about in an email:
There was a story about great Grandma Lindsay my mother would tell, she was quite a fashionable lady for her day and had a few male friends and lived with some of them. That could explain the George Rushforth gap on the census. Just a thought!
22 Sep 1913
Evening Telegraph Angus, Scotland
DUNDEE WOMAN WHO IS ASSAULTED
John MacFarlane, labourer, 31 Princes Street, was charged with assaulting Margaret Rushforth or Lindsay, the woman with whom he cohabits. MacFarlane pleaded not guilty. Mrs Lindsay said that they had lived together for three or four years. Accused worked regularly and she worked to keep herself. About a fortnight ago they quarrelled and Mrs Lindsay left accused, but one day last week MacFarlane asked her to go back to him and she went. On Saturday afternoon accused came in. He had had drink. A neighbour came in and they had several drinks together. MacFarlane and Mrs Lindsay quarrelled, and the woman was struck, knocked down and kicked by the man. She threw a bowl out of the window to attract attention, and accused was apprehended.
On the evidence Bailie Macdonald found the charge proved, and accused, who admitted three previous convictions, was sent to prison for twenty days.
Maggie died in 1937.
Barbara Hay Lindsay
In the 1891 census Barbara is with her grandparents David and Barbara at 8 Dens Road, Dundee.
I found Barbara in 1901 living as a boarder at 40 Dens Road, Dundee. She is a jute spinner. Others in the household are Annie Hay aged 15, Isabella McGurk aged 50, Edward McGurk aged 20, Isabella McGurk aged 16, Kathrine McGurk aged 14.
Barbara married David Morrison Brymer in 1903. David was the son of Peter Begg Brymer and Georgina Morrison.
Peter Begg Brymer died by drowning in 1915 between 20th and 28th December 1915 in the sea off the East Coast of Orkney. His body was found on shore on 30th December near a farm off Egilsay and Rousay. He is buried in the Glebe Churchyard on Rousay. He is mentioned in the Dundee Roll of Honour for World War 1.
Barbara died in 1976 in Dundee and David in 1940.
Their 4 children were:
Georgina Morrison born in 1904 St.Andrews, Dundee. She married David Richardson Welsh on 1st July 1937. She died in 1982.
Barbara Lindsay born 18th July1909 at Kilspindle, Perthshire. She married Lewis Fraser Webster in 1939 in Dundee. She died in 1976. I found a newspaper article about their marriage:
The wedding of a former champion of Morgan F.P.Gym Club took place today. She was Miss Barbara Lindsay Brymer, second daughter of Mr and Mrs Brymer of 15 Muirfield Road, Dundee and the bridegroom was Mr Lewis F Webster, elder son of Mr and Mrs Webster, 171 Strathmartine Road, Dundee. The bride is also well known in musical circles having been a principal in Downfield Operatic Society on a number of occasions. The ceremony was performed by a registrar and confirmed before the Sheriff.
The smart suit of black cloque worn by the bride showed a modishly pleated skirt. Her dainty blouse of shirred chiffon matched the spray of tea roses which lay in her silver fox fur. Her hat was of black felt.
The bridesmaid, Miss Florence Brymer, sister of the bride, was stylishly attired in a black wool marocain suit with which she wore a multi-coloured blouse in water-marked silk. Her hat was to accord and she wore a sable tie. Pink roses composed her spray.
The best man was Mr James Lamb. The reception followed in the Royal British Hotel.
David Morrison born on 15th December 1912 at155 Strathmartine Road, Dundee.
Florence Lindsay born 155 Strathmartine Road, Dundee 4th November 1916. She married Henry Baxter Wood in 1939 in Dundee. She died in 2003.
In the 1911 census, the family are living at 7 Wedderburn’s House, Dundee. David is a mill mechanic. I have also found the Brymer family on various passenger lists travelling back and forward from England to India. Georgina isn’t mentioned on any of these passenger lists.
Passenger Lists
1904 David Brymer travelled from London to Calcutta and in July 1908 he travels back. His occupation is mechanic.
In April 1911 he travels on the Nijanza from London to Calcutta and then in December 1911 Barbara and her baby daughter Barbara leave for Calcutta from Liverpool on the City of Karachi.
In June 1912 Barbara and her daughter aged 2 are travelling again to Calcutta, this time on the Sardinia.
In November 1913 Barbara is travelling again from Liverpool with her daughter Barbara and infant David.
In January 1915 the family arrive in London on the City of Paris – David a fitter aged 33, Barbara aged 31, Barbara aged 5 and David aged 2.
In March 1915 David aged 33, an engineer, travels on the Kaiser I Hind to Bombay from London and in September 1915 Barbara travels to Calcutta from Liverpool on the City of Exeter.
1916 Barbara aged 33 and David aged 3½ return from Calcutta on the City of York.In February1927 David, a traveller, leaves Southampton to go to Madras. His address is given as Lochleven Road, Glasgow.
I asked cousin Doreen if she knew anything about the Brymer family and India and she said she remembered her dad saying that they made their money in another country and she was sure that India was mentioned Cousin Sam remembered that David had a machine patent for the jute mills and Barbara had an income from the royalties. As many Scots went over to India in the early 1900s to build and maintain the growing number of jute mills, this explains why David travelled there on a regular basis.
I found an obituary for David in the Dundee Courier which gave a bit more information:
The death occurred yesterday of Mr David Morrison Brymer at his home 15 Muirfield Road, Dundee.
Mr Brymer had been works manager of Taybank Works, Arbroath Road, Dundee for ten years.
In 17 years in India he rose from mechanic to mill manager, and was connected with Samnuggar, Auckland and Lawrence jute mills. He left India to fight in the Great War, serving as a lieutenant for the duration in France.
Thereafter he travelled over Europe, installing machinery on behalf of Monifeith Foundry and eventually returned to his native city. Many of his inventions in automatic jute machinery have been patented.
He was 56 and is survived by Mrs Brymer, a son and three daughters.
Davina Lindsay
It took me a while to find Maggie’s daughter Davina who was actually in the 1901 census under the surname Sindsay. It turns out that at the age of 13 Davina was living at the Balgay Industrial School for Girls in Blackness Road, Dundee. This school was established in 1861.
Industrial Schools, often privately run, housed children aged 7-15 placed there by magistrates for a variety of reasons such as vagrancy, begging, disrupting schools, or living with prostitutes.
I contacted the Dundee city archives and they very kindly sent me the following information:
We hold the admissions register for Balgay School here and I have found the entry for Davina Lindsay. Industrial schools go back to the mid-19th century and were designed to try and provide some protection for children who were felt to be at risk of slipping through the net perhaps because of difficult circumstances at home. In this case, Davina was admitted because her mother had disappeared. Davina had initially been placed in a children’s home in Dundee and was then admitted to Balgay School on 31 July 1893. Her birth place is given as Perth, her age as 6 years (her date of birth is given as 10 April1887). She had been resident in Dundee for 4 years. Little information is given about her mother, Maggie Lindsay, except for her age (27 years). There is a reference to another member of the family, presumably a sister, named Barbara who is 10 years old. The father’s name is not given. It is a rather sad story but not unusual at this time when often mothers who were left on their own were unable to cope.
I contacted the city archives again asking if it was possible to get copies of the documentation and this was the reply:
The volume is too fragile to have the pages photocopied but I can arrange to have digital photographs made and emailed to you. I should be able to get it done this week. Since my last email, I found an extra entry which makes the story even sadder though not all that unusual at the time. She was first admitted to Balgay School in 1893 but in 1895 her mother managed to get her away from the school and she was not re-admitted till 1898. As it is put in the register “This girl when out visiting friends was decoyed away by mother on 5th October 1895, was readmitted April 1898”. As Davina had originally been admitted because she was homeless and “found wandering” it may be that her mother was trying, however misguidedly, to make amends. Regrettably, there is no indication as to which children’s home she had been in. There were a number of children’s homes and “rescue homes” at this time run by various charitable organisations or religious bodies. Not many records of these organisations have survived from this period. Sometimes the Salvation Army can help though this may be a bit early for them.
I recently found a couple of newspaper articles about Maggie and her daughter Davina:
Dundee Courier 01 August 1893
A RECRUIT FOR THE INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL
Yesterday, in the Dundee Sheriff Court – Sheriff Campbell Smith presiding – Davina Lindsay (6 ½) was brought forward as an applicant under the Industrial Schools Act. Mr Campbell of the Boys Home, reported that she was homeless and had no proper guardian. Her father was unknown, and four months ago her mother had deserted her and could not be traced. His Lordship gave an order for the child’s committal to the Ward Road Industrial School until she attain the age of sixteen years.
Evening Telegraph Angus, Scotland
21 Apr 1898
ABSCONDING FROM AN INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL
Before Bailie Doig at Dundee today, a woman named Maggie Lindsay was brought up on a charge of preventing her daughter Davina from returning to the Girls’ Industrial School at Dundee in October 1895. She pleaded guilty. The Prosecutor, in the course of a statement, said that the girl had been committed to the School by the Sheriff. In the beginning of the month libelled she was allowed to visit her friends for a day or two. The mother, however, prevailed upon her not to return, and subsequently both left for the town. Since then the police all over the country had been looking for the missing girl and her mother, and yesterday they were arrested in Glasgow. Under the Industrial Schools Act 1866 the penalty for such an offence on the part of a parent was a fine not exceeding £20 or imprisonment not exceeding two months. Accused stated that she did not think she was doing a great wrong, as she was anxious to have the girl home again. Bailie Doig said that Lindsay had pleaded guilty to a most serious offence. She would have to pay £5, or suffer one month’s imprisonment. Davina Lindsay (11) was then placed at the bar, and she admitted having absented herself from the School. She had been living, she said, with her father and mother in Berwick, and then in Glasgow. The Magistrate ordered her to be sent back to the Institution until she attains the age of 16 years.
Davina married James Crawford 09 Apr 1909 in St.Andrew, Dundee. Despite her difficult upbringing Davina was, according to family members, a strong character and kept the family together. She died in 1941 in 11 Holding, Barns of Claverhouse.